RAYEA FORSGREN - 3 Months/ Accused; Justin Forsgren - Las Vegas NY

First I want to appologize for my broken up comments above. I was visiting this site from work and I got distracted. I will continue my comments below and try to shed some light on what I was trying to get across.

Twinkletoes, I'm confused by your last statement. What injuries are you referring to? And I would absolutely stand by my kids before my man, whether that man was their bio dad or step dad.

momm_in_il: The above referenced stats are only comparing the population of abused children; However, if you take the amount of children in the general population who are living in step-parent type situations and/or with single parents and get the stats of those children who are being abused, you will find the numbers significantly lower. The vast majority of children living in those situations are not being abused. I do find it disconcerting that of the kids who are being beaten, they are most commonly being beaten by mom's boyfriend.

Furthermore, the above article doesn't even touch on the other risk factors associated with child abuse, such as, but not limited to, low socio-economic status, young age, lack of education and poor upbringing of the parents, drug use, etc. Ironincally those same factors that put kids at a higher risk of abuse also put moms at a higher risk for being a single mom. All of these things are related. Hence, the reason I said you are confusing coorelation with causation. Not one of the above risk factors, nor all of them combined, will definately mean a kid is being abused. You can't say, definately, that one thing causes the other. It's possible that the risk factors that cause moms to be single also cause abusive relationships not that being single and dating causes abuse.
In addition, I would suggest that the reason it's usually the step dad or boyfriend as opposed to the step mom or girlfriend is because moms tend to get custody more often and when you're talking about low socio-economic, undereducated, young moms, you're also referring to the same in dads and they are less likely to be involved in their children's lives to begin with.

You can't insinuate that moms who meet someone, date them, ultimately cohabitate or marry the man is putting their kids in an unnecessary risk and therefore are guilty if their kids end up abused. They are only guitly if they are aware of the abuse, or should have been aware of the abuse, and let it continue. In that case I'm 100% on your side.
However, the above referenced article is misrepresenting the facts at best and being down right disingenous at worse.

The point of the article is that children in the care of non-biological caregivers (namely mom's boyfriend or latest shack up) are much more likely to suffer abuse - and much more serious abuse - than those being cared for by a relative. You can't change those facts. We just need to make single mothers more aware of them.

mom_in_il wrote:The point of the article is that children in the care of non-biological caregivers (namely mom's boyfriend or latest shack up) are much more likely to suffer abuse - and much more serious abuse - than those being cared for by a relative. You can't change those facts. We just need to make single mothers more aware of them.

This I can agree with you. I still have a problem with the article because without all of the facts and specifying that it's a coorelative relationship not a cuasative relationship, it's not accurately representing the facts.

With that said, I think all parents, bio, step, mom dad, whatever need to be educated on the dangers of abuse, the signs of abuse, and what to do if they find themsevles in an abusive relationship. As a mom to a 9 and 2 year old, I have NO sympathy for the mom who said, "he beat me too." Unless you're literally and physically being held prisoner, in my opinion, you have no excuse for allowing your children to be abused. During my studies we've touched on the psychological abuse of the moms who allow their kids to be beaten, but I still have a hard time sympathizing.

Gingernlw wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:The point of the article is that children in the care of non-biological caregivers (namely mom's boyfriend or latest shack up) are much more likely to suffer abuse - and much more serious abuse - than those being cared for by a relative. You can't change those facts. We just need to make single mothers more aware of them.

This I can agree with you. I still have a problem with the article because without all of the facts and specifying that it's a coorelative relationship not a cuasative relationship, it's not accurately representing the facts.

With that said, I think all parents, bio, step, mom dad, whatever need to be educated on the dangers of abuse, the signs of abuse, and what to do if they find themsevles in an abusive relationship. As a mom to a 9 and 2 year old, I have NO sympathy for the mom who said, "he beat me too." Unless you're literally and physically being held prisoner, in my opinion, you have no excuse for allowing your children to be abused. During my studies we've touched on the psychological abuse of the moms who allow their kids to be beaten, but I still have a hard time sympathizing.

The nature of the relationship doesn't matter. Either way the end results are the same. Single mothers need to be more aware and make better child care choices for their children.

The nature of the relationship doesn't matter. Either way the end results are the same. Single mothers need to be more aware and make better child care choices for their children.

I understand what you're saying. However, I believe the nature does matter because if you get hung up in one thing causes another you risk "missing the forest for the trees." There are many risk factors for child abuse and I think all parents should be educated on those factors. I think all parents should be vigilant when figuring child care for their kids. Obviously some populations, maybe, need more education than others and I concede that young, single mothers probably need it the most. However, unfortunately, this opens a whole new discussion. Most of the times these mothers are leaving their kids alone with their so called boyfriends because they have no one else to watch the kid while they work. A lot of social issues need to be addressed if we really want to do something about child abuse.

Gingernlw wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:

The nature of the relationship doesn't matter. Either way the end results are the same. Single mothers need to be more aware and make better child care choices for their children.

I understand what you're saying. However, I believe the nature does matter because if you get hung up in one thing causes another you risk "missing the forest for the trees." There are many risk factors for child abuse and I think all parents should be educated on those factors. I think all parents should be vigilant when figuring child care for their kids. Obviously some populations, maybe, need more education than others and I concede that young, single mothers probably need it the most. However, unfortunately, this opens a whole new discussion. Most of the times these mothers are leaving their kids alone with their so called boyfriends because they have no one else to watch the kid while they work. A lot of social issues need to be addressed if we really want to do something about child abuse.

Since you are so obviously knowledgeable why don't you write an article and get it published? You can include all the correlated issues and contrast them with all the causative issues. Make sure you throw in statistics to back up your positions. When you correlate all the time and experience our blog members have (that have been following these trends), then you will find that the causative result (of you arguing your point into the ground just to see how far into the ground the point will go) is an irritated audience. Statistically speaking, there is a high probability of that occurring.

wow... just wow. I guess you told me huh! I like how you assume I'm 'inexperienced' compared to the members on this board simply because I'm new to this board.

I assure you, I was not trying to "agure my point into the ground." A matter of fact I conceded some points and made new points. But whatever.

And I don't have to write an article. There are already a bunch on this matter, with stats to back them up. Thanks for the advise though.

Gingernlw wrote:

mom_in_il wrote:

The nature of the relationship doesn't matter. Either way the end results are the same. Single mothers need to be more aware and make better child care choices for their children.

I understand what you're saying. However, I believe the nature does matter because if you get hung up in one thing causes another you risk "missing the forest for the trees." There are many risk factors for child abuse and I think all parents should be educated on those factors. I think all parents should be vigilant when figuring child care for their kids. Obviously some populations, maybe, need more education than others and I concede that young, single mothers probably need it the most. However, unfortunately, this opens a whole new discussion. Most of the times these mothers are leaving their kids alone with their so called boyfriends because they have no one else to watch the kid while they work. A lot of social issues need to be addressed if we really want to do something about child abuse.

In addressing instances of "boyfriend abuse" exactly what causes the non-related caregiver to abuse the child doesn't matter - the mothers putting their children at risk don't even see the risk, much less the nature of the cause/correlation of the risk. The abuse by non-relative male caregivers crosses all of the usual boundaries of race, class, education level and community, as the author pointed out. Awareness is a vital step in preventing this type of abuse. I don't think it should be dismissed as a "stupid thought".

Gingernlw wrote:wow... just wow. I guess you told me huh! I like how you assume I'm 'inexperienced' compared to the members on this board simply because I'm new to this board.

I assure you, I was not trying to "agure my point into the ground." A matter of fact I conceded some points and made new points. But whatever.

And I don't have to write an article. There are already a bunch on this matter, with stats to back them up. Thanks for the advise though.

You have been more than generous with telling us how experienced you are and how you are capable of seeing the big picture. We appreciate people with strong opinions, but you may have wanted to knock softly to start and introduce yourself before tackling Twinkle and Mom's comments and opinions. They are both well-respected, longtime contributors with Mom in Il being Administration here. You can't presume to know the level of experience and expertise others may possess relative to yourself.

My intention was certainly not to offend anyone. I don't presume to know anyone's level of experience or expertise nor was it my intention to brag about mine, if that is how it came across. I'm very opinionated and will not appologize. I didn't attack anyone's opinion, simply stated mine and my reasons for disagreeing. I believe whole heartedly in using respectable sources whenever possible because that's what I've been taught to do. I could have attacked the article itself, or the source, but instead I went with "facts" presented in the article and argued my case accordingly.

I can't do links yet... if you're interested in real statistics on child abuse perps check out the hhsDOTgov website and look up the "Child Maltreatment 2012" PDF. Page 42 is interesting.

inmyfloridaopinion wrote:


..."But doctors at Sunrise Hospital said Rayea Forsgren's injuries were consistent with those of a physically abused child, citing multiple fractures, a brain injury and bruising to the face."...



I believe the quote from the article above refers to continued abuse. This was a PREMATURE 3 month old. Preemie babies take a while to catch up. So, even though the baby was technically 3 months old, it was probably more like 1-2 months into his development if you adjust for age. Even a normal 3 month old should not be found to have multiple fractures, brain injury, and bruising to the face. It sounds like the time alive for this precious one was filled with pain and fear. Your experience may have been very positive for boyfriends, step-parents, and others caring for your baby. For that, I am grateful. However, if you were to follow the stories posted here over time, many patterns develop. One of our major patterns of abused children is the mother's boyfriend and it happens way too often to sweep it under the rug. It may not be your immediate problem via your experience, but to many, many children it is a crushing reality with deadly consequences.

You are correct. I either missed it or forgot by the time I got to responding because I read everyone elses comments before responding. Like I've said before, I don't condone nor sympathize with anyone who allows abuse to continue.

Gingernlw wrote:My intention was certainly not to offend anyone. I don't presume to know anyone's level of experience or expertise nor was it my intention to brag about mine, if that is how it came across. I'm very opinionated and will not appologize. I didn't attack anyone's opinion, simply stated mine and my reasons for disagreeing. I believe whole heartedly in using respectable sources whenever possible because that's what I've been taught to do. I could have attacked the article itself, or the source, but instead I went with "facts" presented in the article and argued my case accordingly.

I can't do links yet... if you're interested in real statistics on child abuse perps check out the hhsDOTgov website and look up the "Child Maltreatment 2012" PDF. Page 42 is interesting.

Thank-you. Almost everyone here has a strong personality. When people come on too strong at first it usually indicates that trouble will follow. You can be as opinionated as you want to be once we get to know you over time and your reasons for being here.

Again I appologize if I came on too strong. I've been on numerous message boards over the years for numerous causes/reasons.

I'm on this one because I feel very passionate about child abuse. I came across this one when doing various searches on different cases. I read a lot of your articles for weeks long before joining and ultimately decided to join because I felt that you guys are doing an awesome job trying to get justice for these babies.

I'm interested specifically in child abuse because I want to be a social worker, working with that particular group.

I'll try to be more low key in the future.

Gingernlw wrote:Again I appologize if I came on too strong. I've been on numerous message boards over the years for numerous causes/reasons.

I'm on this one because I feel very passionate about child abuse. I came across this one when doing various searches on different cases. I read a lot of your articles for weeks long before joining and ultimately decided to join because I felt that you guys are doing an awesome job trying to get justice for these babies.

I'm interested specifically in child abuse because I want to be a social worker, working with that particular group.

I'll try to be more low key in the future.

This is information we would have liked to have known to start with when you started posting. You may have followed us, but while we saw you sign up, we had no concrete idea of why you were here. Please join us on the Main Blog and introduce yourself there. http://www.justice4caylee.org/t19202-main-blogfri-june-08-2012 Once we get to know you a bit, I can assure you that TomTerrific will be glad to have you contribute if you are willing. Many of us have been blogging together for 3 1/2 years and, while we may fight among ourselves, we are very, very protective of one another after all this time spent together.

Gingernlw wrote:Again I appologize if I came on too strong. I've been on numerous message boards over the years for numerous causes/reasons.

I'm on this one because I feel very passionate about child abuse. I came across this one when doing various searches on different cases. I read a lot of your articles for weeks long before joining and ultimately decided to join because I felt that you guys are doing an awesome job trying to get justice for these babies.

I'm interested specifically in child abuse because I want to be a social worker, working with that particular group.

I'll try to be more low key in the future.

Gingernlw, it's not 'coming on too strong' that I have a problem with. What I didn't like is you telling us to stop commenting on the dangers mothers boyfriends pose to children. If you're so passionate about child abuse why in the world would you come on here and try to stop us from highlighting a well documented problem area? So you never had a problem with your boyfriend - good for you and I'm very glad your children didn't suffer, but thousands of children around the world are being battered, burned, bashed, slammed against a wall and otherwise abused right this very minute by their mother's boyfriend and that's a fact you can't argue with. This issue needs highlighting and talked about as often as we can and if even one mother or grandparent reads this site and consequently intervenes in a potentially dangerous situation and saves a child we can be proud of what we do here.
Strong opinions are fine here, but as you will see, our mantra is that we are a voice for children who have no voice and we're not going to stop.

Oh and by the way, psychologists and child experts say step-parents should NOT take a parenting roll. They shouldn't be doing the disciplining for instance.

Blamily ~ Please allow me to add my comments...
Most importantly, again, welcome Ging! Anyone who has the spirit of fighting for the betterment of childrens' safety is always welcome here.
We have, in the past, had people join our forum only to try and mollify our opinions regarding these cases. As has been stated so eloquently in previous posts, we are and have been exposed to these cases for many years now and patterns are emerging. We had a recent "temporary" member who insisted that not all sexual predators are bad. Just misjudged, or so he said. As it was later discovered, he was an accused pedophile himself and trying to exonerate his case.
While it is patently unfair to say that all boy/ girl friends and/or non-bio dads/ moms are prone to abuse, it is a fact that there is a need for the biological parent to have a heightened state of awareness in this situation.
Many perps seek vulnerable or submissive partners so that they can initiate or continue their pattern of abuse of either/or both adult and child (ren).
To many of us, it seems as though the bio-parent is more concerned with their own security and fulfillment before that of their offspring.
Children are of the highest priority and their well-being and happiness should come before any adult concerns for financial, emotional or physical security that they may seek from another adult.

Gingernlw- I apologize for my sharp delivery yesterday.

kiwimom wrote:

Gingernlw wrote:Again I appologize if I came on too strong. I've been on numerous message boards over the years for numerous causes/reasons.

I'm on this one because I feel very passionate about child abuse. I came across this one when doing various searches on different cases. I read a lot of your articles for weeks long before joining and ultimately decided to join because I felt that you guys are doing an awesome job trying to get justice for these babies.

I'm interested specifically in child abuse because I want to be a social worker, working with that particular group.

I'll try to be more low key in the future.

Gingernlw, it's not 'coming on too strong' that I have a problem with. What I didn't like is you telling us to stop commenting on the dangers mothers boyfriends pose to children. If you're so passionate about child abuse why in the world would you come on here and try to stop us from highlighting a well documented problem area? So you never had a problem with your boyfriend - good for you and I'm very glad your children didn't suffer, but thousands of children around the world are being battered, burned, bashed, slammed against a wall and otherwise abused right this very minute by their mother's boyfriend and that's a fact you can't argue with. This issue needs highlighting and talked about as often as we can and if even one mother or grandparent reads this site and consequently intervenes in a potentially dangerous situation and saves a child we can be proud of what we do here.
Strong opinions are fine here, but as you will see, our mantra is that we are a voice for children who have no voice and we're not going to stop.

My problem was that "thousands of children around the world are being battered, burned, bashed, slammed against a wall and otherwise abused right this very minute" by a lot of people, often times their own biological parents. I think educating people on child abuse is important, but if you focus on one group too much, you miss the rest. Furthermore, if you type in the link I attempted to post you will see that the article that was posted wasn't exactly accurate. I thought I made that point clear, but apparently not and I'm not sure how to make my point any clearer at this time.

kiwimom wrote:Oh and by the way, psychologists and child experts say step-parents should NOT take a parenting roll. They shouldn't be doing the disciplining for instance.

Depends on the discipline. You also can't allow kids to "walk all over" adults because they don't feel there are consequences. Toddlers, for instance, can't necessarily wait until mom gets home to get a time out for hitting/biting/whatever because the message will be lost. Before my daughter's biological father abandoned her, my current husband took a very inactive roll when it came to discipline but if she did something wrong, she was expected to listen to him. So if he told her "no more TV" then the TV went off. That's the same for any caregiver (grandparents, teachers, babysitters, daycare providers etc).

TomTerrific0420 wrote:Many perps seek vulnerable or submissive partners so that they can initiate or continue their pattern of abuse of either/or both adult and child (ren).
To many of us, it seems as though the bio-parent is more concerned with their own security and fulfillment before that of their offspring.
Children are of the highest priority and their well-being and happiness should come before any adult concerns for financial, emotional or physical security that they may seek from another adult.

Tom, Thanks again. I attempted to make this point above, although I admit far less eloquently. I also stated that I have no sympathy for any parent (or person) who excuses the abuse or overlooks it.

My original issue, when I said infamously "please stop" was the way in which the points were being made. On several occasions I read the statements about the dreaded boyfriend and the way it was written seemed very condemning to any woman who would dare move on with her life from a previously bad relationship. That was the problem. I felt like the comments condemn all mothers who ever have boyfriends. Perhaps I read into way wrong. That would be my mistake.

Gingernlw wrote:

TomTerrific0420 wrote:Many perps seek vulnerable or submissive partners so that they can initiate or continue their pattern of abuse of either/or both adult and child (ren).
To many of us, it seems as though the bio-parent is more concerned with their own security and fulfillment before that of their offspring.
Children are of the highest priority and their well-being and happiness should come before any adult concerns for financial, emotional or physical security that they may seek from another adult.

Tom, Thanks again. I attempted to make this point above, although I admit far less eloquently. I also stated that I have no sympathy for any parent (or person) who excuses the abuse or overlooks it.

My original issue, when I said infamously "please stop" was the way in which the points were being made. On several occasions I read the statements about the dreaded boyfriend and the way it was written seemed very condemning to any woman who would dare move on with her life from a previously bad relationship. That was the problem. I felt like the comments condemn all mothers who ever have boyfriends. Perhaps I read into way wrong. That would be my mistake.

I think you will only see statements about "dreaded boyfriends" made in the cases where they were the inflicter of abuse. Its not that we believe that boyfriends are the source of all abuse. One major concern that has been shared here is that young mothers make need to make informed choices about child care and ALWAYS make their child the number one priority. Education and awareness is just a first step in that process.

I absolutely agree with you.

Gingernlw wrote:I absolutely agree with you.

We probably agree about A LOT of things!