Autopsy findings on duct tape

by momof2boys Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:53 pm

momof2boys wrote:
UtahGrandma wrote:
momof2boys wrote:
UtahGrandma wrote:
SoCal90740 wrote:
tears4caylee wrote:So after reading all these reports, it seems to me that KC duct taped little caylees mouth with several overlaps. That to me just confirms the fact that poor little caylee was probably crying and wouldnt shut up so she was alive at the time the tape was put over her mouth since the mandible stayed in place during the whole decomp. She put her in the trunk probably alive since they
have found no drugs. It seems to me that little caylee sophicated in the trunk and then after two days she started smelling the decomp went to get the shovel from the neighbor, thought she could bury her in the backyard then thought twice about it , that's where the dogs hit next to the playhouse, and put her in plastic bags then the laundry bags and then dumped her like trash.

Of course this is my theory only. GA and CA should hate their daughter for making Caylee suffer and die in the heat of the florida sun. I wonder if Caylee was still crying while in the trunk, did KC hear her crying and totally ignore her cries. My God how evil she is. KC you will rot in hell for what you have done and GA and CA, if I were you, I start to rethink my strategy, cause their aint anything getting your daughter out of jail. She's going to Fry.....JMO

Good theory, and I follow that belief to a point. Don't forget, there was evidence of chloroform (fairly substantial amounts IIRC) - so MY opinion is that she "over-did" it with the choloroform and that was the cause of death. Just in my little ole opinion.

I'm not sure why, maybe it's just simply because I don't want to think about the duct tape being put on her while she was alive, but I am thinking she did that right after she killed her to make it look like a kidnapping. IMO

It's my belief that kidnappers (and people faking kidnappings) cover the mouth with duct tape to quiet the abductee, they do not put duct tape over the mouth AND nose of abductees. That in itself says this was an attempt to kill and successfully carried out. IMO If you cover the nose AND the mouth it had to be to intentionally kill that person as how else can a person breathe, also eliminating the chloroform theory as Caylee would not have been able to inhale the chloroform with tape over both orifices.

Maybe I missed that part that said it was around the mouth and nose. I thought it was just the mouth.

Hi Utah! Here's the link...page 3 says tape wrapped around both and well as back of skull. Sorry for the visual. I posted my beliefs on page 60 re: this.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html

This is graphic***

The way I am reading it is that the tape was responsible for holding a mat of hair at the base of the skull and was over both the mouth and nose (nasal aperture translates to nose slits or nose openings). The only scenario then that makes sense to me is that the tape was wrapped completey around the head several times covering both the nose and mouth and the back of the skull, hence holding hair to the base of the skull as litterally taken from page 3.

This says to me that the EXACT cause of death was most definitely delibarate suffocation by duct tape. With no traceable amounts of any drug found that would also say that Caylee was most likely conscious at the time.

So sad.

It is beyond time to have that evil bitch pay the price for what she did to her precious daughter

And for the grandparents to stop defending this psycho!!! Anthony’s, deal with REALITY!!!

by MIZBELLA Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:35 am

AHH...BUT DID YOU SEE THERE WAS SMALL AMOUNTS OF THC OR CANNIBOL FOUND ON THE PAPER TOWELS THAT WERE SUBMITTED TO THE FBI. SO CASEY DID SPEND SOMETIME WITH PUFF THE MAGIC DRAGON. IT ONLY TAKES 30DAYS FOR POT TO BE OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM...SO THAT WOULD EXPLAIN WHY THEY ONLY FOUND BIRTH CONTROL IN HER SYSTEM WHEN THEY DRUG TESTED CASY.

by RIVERBABE60 Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:38 am

Hi everyone....just weighing in here on the duct tape theories.

I hate to be so graphic, but if KC wrapped the duct tape around Caylee's mouth & nose, attaching it to the back of the head, and it was found intact, wouldn't there be some soft tissue still stuck to the duct tape? Maybe dried out, but still there? As in her lips, etc? It doesn't make sense to me that some of her tissue didn't stick and stay attached to the the duct tape......at least that they're releasing to the media. I'm no scientist, but it just bothers me about that. Oh well....guess we'll see later on about that.

Jan

by inmyfloridaopinion Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:01 pm

RIVERBABE60 wrote:Hi everyone....just weighing in here on the duct tape theories.

I hate to be so graphic, but if KC wrapped the duct tape around Caylee's mouth & nose, attaching it to the back of the head, and it was found intact, wouldn't there be some soft tissue still stuck to the duct tape? Maybe dried out, but still there? As in her lips, etc? It doesn't make sense to me that some of her tissue didn't stick and stay attached to the the duct tape......at least that they're releasing to the media. I'm no scientist, but it just bothers me about that. Oh well....guess we'll see later on about that.

Jan

WARNING VERY GRAPHIC SPECULATION ONLY:
I was thinking about that, but remember there was all kinds of insect activity and the skull was clean as well. This would have permitted insect activity from inside the skull to reach the duct tape. Also, some of that skin and tissue might have liquified/decomposed. The hair would have helped hold the duct tape in place. :( :( :( :(

by Lisa_Z Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:48 am

My theory is that Casey chloroformed Caylee THEN wrapped the duct tape around her mouth and nose thus suffocating her. I do not believe Caylee was conscious at the time because we have not heard that her hands were bound. If you were going to put tape over someones mouth and nose, wouldn't you bind their hands so they couldn't pull it off???

Just my thoughts.........

by momof2boys Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:54 pm

Lisa_Z wrote:My theory is that Casey chloroformed Caylee THEN wrapped the duct tape around her mouth and nose thus suffocating her. I do not believe Caylee was conscious at the time because we have not heard that her hands were bound. If you were going to put tape over someones mouth and nose, wouldn't you bind their hands so they couldn't pull it off???

Just my thoughts.........

IMO, a 2 year old could claw endlessly at tape wrapped at least 3 times around and never be able to get it off before losing consciousness. This scratching would not leave marks on bone, so there would be no evidence of this. Or ESOTD could have simply held her arms as she could easily overpower a 2 year old for 3 minutes. I have come to this concluson because although they cannot definitely rule out any form of drug, they specifically tested hair, bone, marrow and cranial washings for chloroform and xanax and found no trace of these drugs in any sample.

by kiwimom Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:00 am

Just adding my 2 cents worth to this discussion.

I don't believe Caylee was placed in the trunk alive. IMO She was killed in the house, wrapped in the winnie the pooh blanket and put in the laundry bag and rubbish bags.

There are two reasonable options to consider given the evidence IMO. Casey either killed Caylee deliberately, without anger, so she could be free of parenthood and be with Tony and ensure Caylee couldn't expose Casey's lies, or she was tired and snapped and killed Caylee in a fit of anger. Although Casey had only a few hours sleep in the days prior to June 16th and would have been beyond tired, I believe that she had planned to get rid of Caylee because of the searches on the computer for chloroform and the tests that show abnormally high chloroform levels in the trunk. I don't think Casey hated Caylee, therefore I think she wanted to find a way to kill her in a way that she thought would cause Caylee the least amount of suffering. The only thing that doesn't seem to fit with premediated murder is that she drove around with the body in the trunk for a couple of days then dumped it so close to home. That doesn't make sense to a normal person, but I think Casey has mental issues. These mental issues allowed her to pretend Caylee's dead body wasn't in the trunk, until the smell made her have to do something about it and her mental state meant she couldn't think clearly about what to do and dumped it near the house. When the car smell continued to get worse, she just dumped the car too and didn't even try to hide it. Casey seems to live in a fanatacy world where she can't tell the diffeence between thuth and lies and reality and fantacy. She seems able to shut out what she doesn't want to deal with. Luckily, she can tell the difference between right and wrong so will be convicted.

by Impetuous Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:51 am

My current theory, subject to change with the continued evidence releases, is that KC was planning on murdering Caylee, possibly even GA & CA, and was working out the details (probably a grand kidnapping of Caylee); however, the incident on the night of the 15th left CA and KC in a rage with each other spiraling KC's plan into a frenzied action. I would imagine that CA (allegedly choking KC) won the immediate battle and KC steaming in her room (like we saw on the jailhouse video), probably pacing back and forth, in a rage took her rage out on Caylee in their room, possibly the reason for the layering of the tape (there, CA can't hear you (to Caylee); let's see what CA will do now). If Caylee's mouth and nose were taped several times as the evidence indicates, I doubt that CA could hear Caylee if she tried to scream--any such noise would be muffled and possibly KC had her music on and CA probably trying to calm herself down--maybe took some of her meds? So sometime late night or early morning KC places Caylee's body in the playhouse until GA and CA leave for work the next day and she feels safe enough to move her. Because Caylee's murder happened sooner than KC planned, she could have panicked for a day or two not quite knowing where to place Caylee's body or maybe the place she thought she'd place Caylee's body didn't quite work out as KC had imagined in her mind it would. So after the panick subsides she remembers the place near the pet cemetary--no one would ever think to look there, especially if it was near but not quite where the childhood pets are--not in KC's mind anyway. At some point, maybe the 18th she places Caylee's body in the trunk to move her near the pet cemetary. Also I imagine that KC never believed anyone would suspect that Caylee would be found so close to home (who does that, in her mind?) and after the hurricanes and rains she may have thought that maybe Caylee's body would disappear never to be found and if she stuck to her kidnapping story no matter what no one would be the wiser. She probably felt she'd cleaned up enough (this is where I think the chloroform comes in) to avoid any suspicion of death. So, she has to stick to this story and her parents are manipulated enough to believe her lies--she knows CA can talk GA into just about anything -- (a person start to think they're going insane when they live with sociopaths and have to tear apart the sociopath's stories). Then, with Bias, perfect mixture to the story and maybe she did know he'd be taken by her before this crime -- she could continue her kidnapping story -- Padilla was probably something she wasn't counting on and she probably thought she'd hit jackpot with all the area under water and ravaged by hurricanes. My thought is after all those, continuing her story the whole time as the body hadn't been found, she thought she'd gotten away with murder. Once the body was found, IMO, she knew that her stupid kidnapping story wasn't going to fly but how (after 6 months of the kidnapping story) could she go with any other scenario?

Again, this theory is all subject to change as more evidence is released, and my my opinions and theories given all I've read and seen, heard and digested of the evidence and players in this case....

by Impetuous Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:00 pm

I also wanted to add that I think once KC murdered Caylee she felt empowered to leave the A house. As we've read in the documents, KC would leave for a night or two under the "guise" of staying with the "nanny" but CA would hound her with phone calls and text messages. I think by murdering Caylee she "killed a bird with one stone" -- giving her the freedom of staying with Tony as long as she wanted (we remember that the roommates agreed it wouldn't be kosher for Caylee to stay with them night and day). As the days rolled by, KC found it easier and easier to tell these practically strangers her lies and since she wasn't "encumbered" by Caylee--she didn't have to go back hom.

Because this group of new people didn't know her well enough (she was trying to stay away from her usual group), it was easy enough to lie to them and tell them that Caylee was with the "nanny" and no one was the wiser to press her for details. I'm sure over time, it got easier to tell the "nanny" story. She could not have told the "nanny" story in the A household and get away with it cause CA would have ripped her a new one. After CA's choking incident, she probably backed of of KC for a while so it was easier for KC to "disappear" -- in fact, I think had CA not found her, KC would have stay gone from the A's to not have to answer for Caylee's whereabouts and she probably would have kept her "nanny" story going until she moved on to the next crowd (possibly not having to own up to having Caylee ever) as I think Tony would have eventually gotten fed up with her. We've seen just how KC was trying to avoid running into any A, even LA, who supposedly was the "best brother" or whatever. Just more of my theories....

by venuslock35 Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:14 pm

Chloroform could have also been there from KC trying to clean the fluids afterwards. Using ammonia based cleaning products & bleach would've made ALOT of chloroform. Especially, if she flooded her vehicle with it & all over everything, trying to clean it. I noticed, when the state atty was describing how they thought she killed Caylee, when he mentioned Caylee being restrained, KC subconsciously & physically made a movement of her right hand grabbing her left wrist. That said alot to me.
P.S. I'm so hoping that the rest of that family gets some kind of charges on them after the murder trial if they try, again, to make "mistruths, half-truths and/or mistatements" among the charges should be: child abuse, accessory to murder after the fact, tampering w evidence, perjury, misappropriating funds for "non-profit" org & an extra charge just for being the enablers that they are! If they would just do the right thing & see Casey for what she really is.....(And I thought my family was screwed up when I was a kid!) Autopsy findings on duct tape 688956

by venuslock35 Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:07 am

[b] I'm so happy for the Anthonys. They have FINALLY have seen the light. They FINALLY realized that Casey is naught more than an empty, hollow shell of a human being & there's no saving her. She will, in fact, NEVER change. I hope the Anthonys can finally start healing & to grieve the loss of their beautiful grandchild, Caylee Marie & their daughter, Casey. To them, she is already dead. I think it's the only way for them to start the true grieving process....letting go of any hope to rehabilitate a sociopath. I hope, in this turn of...one disaster after another, (all thanks to Casey) that the state attorneys office will see that their cooperation & finally being TRUTHFUL, that charges are no longer pending. Since they have made the decision to save what family they have left & being TRUTHFUL, they honor Caylee. (Before Casey completely oblitterated it!) I pray that God gives them the peace they now rightfully deserve & hope they now have many supporters to help them through this incredible pain that seems to be of Biblical proportions to them & their terrible loss!

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