AMBER MACKENZIE SMITH - 3 Months - Reno NV

First if you need who I am clarified Pam can testify that my roommate and I are her next door neighbors as well as friends. I am also a father of 5 kids and have had broken bones myself.. I drove Pam to the hospital after she, myself my roommate and another friend of ours and neighbor checked Amber over, and other then a little swelling in her leg there was nothing outwardly wrong we all awesome she had rolled her joint in her hip out of place... Terrance was called and informed they we all felt it was no big deal Amber would be fine and we took her to the ER the first Doc was a very close minded person but even he stated it only takes 8 pounds of pressure to break a babies femur.Another friend and myself stayed there with Pam through all the bs that was thrown at her I was asked not to contact Terrance by the detectives because they had already decided in their minds that some one had done wrong ( I understand it's their job to be like this) and that some one needed to go to jail, the first words out out of Terrance's mouth when he got to the ER and saw his daughter laying there sedated and helpless weren't hows it going, whats for lunch or anything of the sorts they were and I quote "whats wrong and how did it happen" and before any one could answer or he could ask anymore he was lead to another room by the detectives.(Mind you this was the last time he has seen his little baby girl) These aren't things a abusive father asks, these are things a dad asks who is scared for his daughter.. My roommate and I as well as the other friend who lives 2 doors down see Terrance Pam and Amber on a daily basis, I have seen how gentle Terrance is with his daughter and with his wife and how much he loves them and would die for them without a single thought end of story. I have read most of the posting here people keep throwing out there that this is abuse and that he has to abuse his wife because accidents never happen get real people accidents happen my 12 year old son and I go out shooting, hunting and fishing does this mean that if he stabs himself in the leg with a fillet knife when I am not looking or I hook him in the cheek or ear because he walks behind me while I am casting out that he has been abused. NO it means accidents small and large can and do happen. Even though accidents happen people want to crucify Terrance with out having the facts all the media has is police reports and police hypothesis on all the ways the believe this happened... Heres a idea hat is not bias why not wait till the court case is done then jump on band wagons, I know that there are cases that are abuse, babies who need help, mother's who need protection and I know the police keep them selves wound tighter then bullfrog butts and that is how they protect children but please please god remember there are 2 sides to every story in this case its Pam and Terrance's side and the police side

kiwimom- like i stated before. it wouldn't have taken any force or anything. it was described to me as an old egg beater that you crank. the routers on those are super short made to not break easy as it gets farther away from the center of gravity it is easier to break. same with amber. If he rolled her over by her ankle(like he said he did) it is far enough away from her center to cause her 11 pounds of wieght to be enough counter pressure to break her leg. and we are getting polygraphs per our lawyers requests.

oh. and my neighbor was at the door to return my car keys after i let her use the car to take her kids to school.

one last by the way. when they say surgery. they didn't actually cut into her. They put her to sleep to set her leg and put her cast on.

I look forward to a full investigation and all the facts coming out - thanks to everyone for posting the pieces of the story that you are involved in/aware of.

kiwi - i thought i read she was in a car seat on the sofa to protect her from the dog? I certainly hope they aren't using an exersaucer at her age -



a baby needs to be strong enough to hold their head up and sustain full weight on their legs before being placed in one - according to our pediatrician.

Love love love this site. I'm a mod on a similar site that has this douchetastic man featured on it (as of this morning). Do these people REALLY google their names and attack the first site that pops up in the search? As a parent, if I was accused of a crime that I DIDN'T commit, I would spend less time preaching my innocence to people who aren't buying it, and more time giving details to my public defender in hope that the truth would prevail... Then again... I've never abused a child.

actually april. we are not so poor to need a public defender. we have an actual lawyer. and my husband did not abuse our baby. no body really cares what you think so if you want to call my husband a douche maybe you should look in the mirror first. and no we don't google our names. my 3MONTH OLD HAS HER OWN HEADLINE> that was brought to my attention and i wanted to ask politely that she not have her name exploited. then felt the need to explain my story. don't worry. our lawyers are really good. so if you can't look at all the facts don't reply, you're close minded. I'm sorry you have no forgiveness in your heart.

MehMehofMine, I want to remind you that originally all we had on this site was one article taken from mainstream media and Amber's name was not stated. It was Terence who contacted us with the message that you can read on the first page of this thread who has kept this thread active and understandably, given his aggressive posts, hasn't done himself any favours if he wants people to think he's a gentle guy who could never intentionally hurt anyone. I'm glad you're going to take polygraphs. I'm sure that will make a big difference to LE if you both pass. They're not out to get you but you have to understand that a spiral fracture such as Amber suffered is usually caused by abuse in a baby. Then they are told that Dad was looking after her when it happened - and because he's a bloke that's another red flag statistically and here you are today. How is Amber doing?

Yawn. I can look in the mirror. What I see staring back is a woman that has NEVER been accused of child abuse. To take it a step further, a woman that doesn't have any need to defend her husband. That's right... My husband has never laid a hand on my child.

Oh, and pardon me for thinking your "man" would have a public defender. Most child abusers do. Anyhow - let me know how that high dollar lawyer works out for you.

Welcome April! Glad to have you, if we can help you with anything, let us know!

I don't know about anyone else, but several things in Pamela's "explanation" raised some serious red flags for me.

Pam, here are my concerns:

1. Propping up a bottle in a two (or three) month old's mouth. This is extremely dangerous. Besides that, you said your husband had already fed her and burped her and cuddled her. If she was already fed and burped, why was there a bottle propped up in her mouth? I cannot stress how dangerous this is. Maybe no one told you this isn't a proper way to feed a baby.

2. Leaving the baby unattended with a bottle propped in her mouth. See #1.

3. Leaving the baby unattended on the couch, strapped in her car seat. Not even close to safe. Gravity is a law.

4. You stated you have a big dog, so that is why you use the car seat. You said that on the morning in question YOU let the dog out. So where was the dog when your husband was distracted by the TV and answering the door and your baby was NOT in her car seat, but laying on the couch?

5. Where was the dog when your baby was strapped in her car seat and your husband left her unattended to go wake you up? You do realize the dog could've potentially knocked her off the couch, flat on her face, don't you?

6. The most concerning thing of all - I have 4 kids, and not once did I ever roll them over by grabbing and twisting their ankles. That doesn't even make sense to handle a baby in such a fashion. It is totally counter-intuitive.

I still don't believe this is how she broke her femur. From everything I've read about it so far, if he had twisted her ankle as you've described, the torque pressure would've been on her tibia and that is the bone that would've fractured, not her femur. The cause of 90% of spiral femur fractures in infants under 6 months of age are attributable to child abuse.

baby's eat more than once in a day. just so you know. and the dog was out and then put back away. and as far as bottle propping EVERY parent has done it. and she was not strapped to anything. she was tucked in on a safe position.

MehMehofMine wrote:baby's eat more than once in a day. just so you know. and the dog was out and then put back away. and as far as bottle propping EVERY parent has done it. and she was not strapped to anything. she was tucked in on a safe position.

I feel like saying, "If all the other children jumped off a cliff would you jump, too?"

MehMehofMine wrote:baby's eat more than once in a day. just so you know. and the dog was out and then put back away. and as far as bottle propping EVERY parent has done it. and she was not strapped to anything. she was tucked in on a safe position.

I'm doing my level best to avoid being sarcastic with you. Did you miss the part where I stated that I have FOUR children? It pretty much qualifies me to know a little something about babies and how much they eat. Why you chose to address the bottle and the dogs and not the main issues baffles me.

Again, it is COUNTER-INTUITIVE to grab a baby by the ankle to roll her over. Besides, think about it for two seconds.

Even if he did grab the baby by the ankle to roll her, how does that twist her ankle so hard it breaks the strongest bone in her body? I can't envision it. If he did grab her ankle, I am assuming he grabbed the outer leg, the one closest to the edge of the couch....he would've pulled her leg OVER the other leg, to roll her onto her tummy, or vice versa, not twisted her ankle..... Do you understand what I'm saying? It would be quite the feat to roll a baby over by twisting her ankle. If he grabbed the inner leg, the one closest to the back of the couch, then I can see how he would have to twist her ankle pretty d@mn hard to roll her over. And that my dear, would most definitely be considered abusive.

MehMehofMine wrote:baby's eat more than once in a day. just so you know. and the dog was out and then put back away. and as far as bottle propping EVERY parent has done it. and she was not strapped to anything. she was tucked in on a safe position.

No, not EVERY parent "has done it" (bottle propping)! What if she starts to choke or aspirate the formula into her lungs? She can't remove the bottle herself.

Are you are saying she was in her car seat on the couch, not strapped in?
I thought that you said she was on the couch in the car seat because of the big dog? If she wasn't strapped in, isn't that farther to fall than a bouncy chair on the floor?

Every parent makes mistakes, but we are having trouble comprehending exactly how this happened and what was the cause so that it doesn't happen again and so that other parents can be educated to not repeat what happened to your daughter. I am glad that you did take her to get medical care. That was one thing that you were very wise to do right away so she could get her leg set and avoid other complications. I hope she is doing OK now.

MehMehofMine wrote:baby's eat more than once in a day. just so you know. and the dog was out and then put back away. and as far as bottle propping EVERY parent has done it. and she was not strapped to anything. she was tucked in on a safe position.

Well I never once propped up the bottle, so not everyone does that apparently. You know we may as well try to have some good come out of all this back and forth, so as I'm older and been there done that allow me to give you and other young parents some good advice. Mom's need to get out of bed and take care of their babies. Dad needs to get ready for work and babies need a focused parent. I'm not a morning person either, but I had to be. If you have a dog who lives inside get those barriers you can buy and block off rooms where the dog can't go and the baby can be safe. I had to do that too, not that my dog jumped up or anything but he was a big dog and it's better to be safe than sorry. I kept that regime going while my child was crawling too so he didn't get a handful and mouthful of dog hair. To all new mothers out there, your baby should be joined at the hip when young. In the house, carry the baby around with you. When you need to go shopping etc take the baby with you. Before you know it they are running round and there's a whole lot of other things you need to do to keep them safe but in the meantime, keep them close.

ok. well it seems like this can go back and forth forever. that is my take on what happened. like i said i was asleep. sorry if me sleeping (after recent hospital trips for me mind you) bothers people. i think it is wrong to say new moms cant sleep. what is the point of us having partners if not to help. i can not keep up with all the questions as i did not witness what happened. amber is doing well thanks for finally asking. i may be young but i dont like being told that makes me any less of a good parent. this is my final post. thank you for raising awareness. to those that actually listened thanks for hearing me out. this is a tragic accident that should not have happened. but it happened to my daughter and my family. speculate and assume all you want but i know what is happening now better then anyone. straight from the mouths of doctors. this has been explained to me directly. i cant make you understand. but if you can put yourself in my shoes. my world fell apart while i was sleeping. im sorry if i seem on edge but that is because my heart is broken in so many ways. have a merry christmas. i wish i could

*sigh*

Please listen this time.

A baby is lying on her back. The goal is to roll the baby from her back to her tummy, turning her so that she is closer to the back of the couch. (To the right)

You are going to accomplish this by grabbing her ankle and flipping her over.

The baby is lying on the couch so that her left leg is nearest the back of the couch and her right leg is nearest the edge of the couch.

You have two ankles to choose from, a right (outer) ankle and a left (inner) ankle.

By grabbing the left ankle, the inner ankle, it would be physically impossible to flip the baby over by twisting this ankle. Physically impossible. Besides, if the objective is to roll the baby over, no person familiar with the physical laws of our planet would grab this ankle and attempt to turn the baby. So we can rule that out as a "roll-over" method.

By grabbing the other ankle, the right, outer ankle, if the aim is to roll the baby over, then to accomplish this, the ankle would be PULLED OVER, one leg over the other....there is slight, if any, twisting involved.

MehMehofMine wrote:ok. well it seems like this can go back and forth forever. that is my take on what happened. like i said i was asleep. sorry if me sleeping (after recent hospital trips for me mind you) bothers people. i think it is wrong to say new moms cant sleep. what is the point of us having partners if not to help. i can not keep up with all the questions as i did not witness what happened. amber is doing well thanks for finally asking. i may be young but i dont like being told that makes me any less of a good parent. this is my final post. thank you for raising awareness. to those that actually listened thanks for hearing me out. this is a tragic accident that should not have happened. but it happened to my daughter and my family. speculate and assume all you want but i know what is happening now better then anyone. straight from the mouths of doctors. this has been explained to me directly. i cant make you understand. but if you can put yourself in my shoes. my world fell apart while i was sleeping. im sorry if i seem on edge but that is because my heart is broken in so many ways. have a merry christmas. i wish i could

This is what I heard you say:

"Me me me me me me me (oh yeah, Amber) me me me me."

Nobody said new moms couldn't sleep. Where did you get that from? You are trying to divert attention from the main issue which is HOW DID AMBER'S LEG BREAK? It did not happen the way you are claiming. Furthermore, you said it was THE DOCTORS who told you how this COULD HAVE happened. And yet, your husband was arrested anyway. Hmmm.

We have yet to hear from your husband who was so long-winded in his exhaustive emails to us, defending himself, and yet strangely silent when asked to answer a very simple question. He is the only one who knows how this truly happened, and obviously, he isn't telling. He is more than happy to go on and on about everything else under the sun though. I believe that is called "deflection."

Deflect, divert, dissuade - the three main tools of an effective liar.

I'm sorry for you, Pamela, I truly am. I'm even sorrier for poor Amber. You need to take your blinders off immediately, before your baby gets hurt again. And invest in a parenting class, or at least a good parenting book. Your baby deserves it.

I am the childs care giver and have been around since her birth. I understand how everyone is feeling in this, If I heard about it like all of you I would be horafied, However I do know this family its a picture perfect family or was before this horid accident. they are both loving parents and would never intensionaly hurt this baby. And yes i can say that in full confidance because im arround every day. So please they have enough to get through leave them be. And as soon as its cleared in court you all will feel quilt for adding to the hell these parents are going through...... Accidants do happen and thats exacly what happend in this case.

Oh my......well, I am at a loss for words
http://www.spellcheck.net/speller/ :::roll:::

wolfcry0418 wrote:I am the childs care giver and have been around since her birth. I understand how everyone is feeling in this, If I heard about it like all of you I would be horafied, However I do know this family its a picture perfect family or was before this horid accident. they are both loving parents and would never intensionaly hurt this baby. And yes i can say that in full confidance because im arround every day. So please they have enough to get through leave them be. And as soon as its cleared in court you all will feel quilt for adding to the hell these parents are going through...... Accidants do happen and thats exacly what happend in this case.

Welcome wolfcry. Please take good care of dear little Amber. I will keep an open mind, but as you said, it is understandable that people other than LE tend to think this wasn't an accident. The best thing would be if EVERYONE kept an open mind. You and Pamela need to as well and get passed the fact that Terence loves his baby daughter and understand that he may have hurt her out of anger or frustration never the less. It happens a lot. An act of violence against a baby is not about love or hate, it's about frustration, and momentary uncontrolled anger most of the time. So please, keep an open mind too and keep her safe.

Admin wrote:Welcome April! Glad to have you, if we can help you with anything, let us know!

Thanks, Admin. Like I said, I am admin on a similar site. That fact, alone, tells me that we all share a similar passion - that is the anger we feel toward child abusers. I love love love this site. One of my writers linked this thread in ours, so I know you and I are sharing readers.

As for the bottle propping - NO!! Not everyone does that! It's lazy and moronic, at best. Nothing should be more important than feeding your child. Stop what you are doing and give the infant your undivided attention. If this is not possible, perhaps birth control is a better option than spreading your idiocy through genetics. Your child should ALWAYS be at the top of your list of priorities. Hell, my son is 9 and I will stop what I'm doing if he tells me he's hungry.

April wrote:

Admin wrote:Welcome April! Glad to have you, if we can help you with anything, let us know!

Thanks, Admin. Like I said, I am admin on a similar site. That fact, alone, tells me that we all share a similar passion - that is the anger we feel toward child abusers. I love love love this site. One of my writers linked this thread in ours, so I know you and I are sharing readers.

As for the bottle propping - NO!! Not everyone does that! It's lazy and moronic, at best. Nothing should be more important than feeding your child. Stop what you are doing and give the infant your undivided attention. If this is not possible, perhaps birth control is a better option than spreading your idiocy through genetics. Your child should ALWAYS be at the top of your list of priorities. Hell, my son is 9 and I will stop what I'm doing if he tells me he's hungry.

Well said!

Wow, Kiwi. I feel so much love right now.

Totally off topic - I think my son was "assembled" in New Zealand. Does that have ANYTHING to do with the water in the toilet going backwards? Love love love me some Kiwis. I have family there - kiwi cousins that live in Australia and London. I'd gladly add you to the family tree (if you'd let me, of course).

I'm kicking Trench to the curb... You have smilies.....

wolfcry0418 wrote:I am the childs care giver and have been around since her birth. I understand how everyone is feeling in this, If I heard about it like all of you I would be horafied, However I do know this family its a picture perfect family or was before this horid accident. they are both loving parents and would never intensionaly hurt this baby. And yes i can say that in full confidance because im arround every day. So please they have enough to get through leave them be. And as soon as its cleared in court you all will feel quilt for adding to the hell these parents are going through...... Accidants do happen and thats exacly what happend in this case.

Welcome, WolfCry. I'd like to point out, once again, they are the ones who came here, they are the ones who keep coming here. Terrance is the one who gave us Amber's name. Since you are a care-giver, I'd like to ask you how many times you've rolled a baby over by their ankle?

(Shaking my head at yet another indictment of the American educational system )